1) You are obviously far more than she can handle, so it's in her best interests to yield. it appears so. But I'd rather stand with truth than money (I don't really need the 500g that bad... plenty of money later on). They can be right but it's disrespectful. Saadia is known for constantly changing her name. The man you can free from jail seems strangely honourable, saying he has shamed his companions and wants to begin anew. They will tell you that you will have to lead her out of the city, to Whiterun Stables, where they will be waiting. The sum of two well-ordered subsets is well-ordered. She probably fled Hammerfell with some valuables, and traded them to mercenaries and caravans to acquire safe passage across Tamriel. Tired of wandering and tired of fame. Kematu, on the other hand, is a calculating liar. If Alik'r can't present any official request to extradite her, or any other proof that they working under any legitimate reason, then they have absolutely no business with ther. In the end, the heroic Redguards fought the Aldmeri Dominion to a standstill, [...] to allow the eventually Second Treaty of Stros M'kai in 4E 180 and the withdrawal of Aldmeri forces from Hammerfell. Take your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat. This may indicate Swords. videogame_asset My games. 2. The Alik'r are hiding in a damn bandit cave 5. You can complete this mission in two ways. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/In_My_Time_of_Need. If you accept Kematu's request and help him capture Saadia, you may Both Kematu and Saadia are lying to the Dragonborn, so why do I believe that she is innocent? It is more likely that an individual spoke out against an organization rather than one individual causing the fall of Taneth. The Emperor's decision to withdraw from the Imperial City in 4E 174 was bloodily vindicated. Speaking to the Alik'r ends the quests and earns the reward. Saadia is wanted by the noble houses of Taneth for treason. Photochemical reduction of benzophenone: why inverted flask? Is Saadia… Just to be clear, by that you mean the people of Whiterun woke up, saw she was gone, assumed she was dead and held a funeral? Kematu claims Saadia is the Dominion agent. I wonder why no-one so far mentions the fact that she will attack you if you go along with her to "speak in private"? After 20 years of AES, what the retrospective changes that should have been made? Source: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/In_My_Time_of_Need. She is alone, friendless, and has just learned that her pursues have caught up with her. So I think it is reasonable to believe that Kematu was lying about his intentions to the Dragonborn. She could have a trial under a partial judge. Titus II was forced to officially renounce Hammerfell as an Imperial province in order to preserve the hard-won peace treaty. 2) Same 3-4) Kematu doesn't have to. We don't even know either of them are telling the truth. In 4E 175 the White-Gold Concordat is signed. I tend to believe Kematu as well, mostly for the reasons you outlined. The premise is to add "romance" to the game, with the new dialogues leading to sidequests allowing the seduction of the many citizens of Skyrim. Skyrim. She says that she spoke out against the Thalmor in Hammerfell and they hired assassins to hunt her down. Either Kemtatu is lying, or Saadia is. She could be easily protected elsewhere. If you believe Saadia, skip to Talk to the Alik'r Prisoner. "I am a noble of House Suda in Hammerfell.". And we know (or at least, I believe) that Kematu has already lied to us. Although not explicitly mentioned, judging by the White-Gold Concordat I doubt that the treaty of Stros M'kai left the Aldmeri Dominion empty handed (which might explain Kematu saying that the resistance in Hammerfell is still ongoing). encounter a group of Thalmor Justiciars in the wild that carry a Saadia seems hesitant to explain the full situation, while Kematu elaborates on it fully. In Whiterun I met a pair of Redguard thugs who told me they were looking for a young Redguard woman. Unwilling to abandon Hammerfell completely, he allowed a great number of "invalids" to be discharged from the Legions before they marched east. What does children mean in “Familiarity breeds contempt - and children.“? In My Time of Need: Saadia was telling the truth. It was mentioned that Saadia must be more than she claims to be, too. Essential NPCs refer to characters that are unkillable until they are … Makes sense to me. As Slade said here, her urn is in Whiterun, if you side with Kematu, meaning that while she might be taken back alive, she gets an execution at some point. And his closing lines which imply that Saadia is known for her manipulation of people. The problem is that there's really no way to tell which one is telling the truth. This is why. Saadia seems hesitant to explain the full situation, while Kematu elaborates on it fully. They said there was a bounty on her head, and I would be rewarded for finding her. Then, after you slaughter them, Kematu tries his hand at smooth talking, and constantly calls Saadia a liar. they have been causing trouble in Whiterun, to the point of getting thrown out and/or arrested, the Alik'r out searching refuse to give any reasons for hunting Saadia, they don't have any sort of official documentation of their hunt, they have been harassing Redguard women who are travelling throughout Skyrim, Saadia actually puts the weapon away when you ask her to. Since Aldmeri Dominion justiciar parties are freely roaming throughout Skyrim (prisoners in tow), hiring a third party to do the same job seems questionable. minecraft-java-edition the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim minecraft-commands diablo-3 steam league-of-legends technical-issues pokemon-go minecraft-bedrock-edition starcraft-2 more tags. If you go and check in Whiterun's Hall of the Dead shortly after, you find Saadia's burial urn. If you go and check in Whiterun's Hall of the Dead shortly after, you find Saadia's burial urn. It only takes a minute to sign up. The Emperor encouraged [The Aldmeri Dominion] in their belief that he was preparing to surrender; meanwhile, he gathered his forces to retake the Imperial City. I'll say Kematu is the one to trust. Ultimately, my decision is to side against the Alik'r (note that is not the same thing as siding with Saadia): All of the hard evidence is against the Alik'r acting in an acceptable or legitimate fashion, with only Kematu's honeyed words suggesting otherwise. We learn that General Decianus left some troops behind referred to in the book as "Alik'r warriors" who kept battling the Aldmeri Dominion when Decianus had to heed the call of emperor Titus Mede II to march to Cyrodiil. These veterans formed the core of the army that eventually drove Lady Arannelya's forces back across the Alik'r late in 174, taking heavy losses on their retreat from harassing attacks by the Alik'r warriors. What are the degrees of a pentatonic scale called? I don't understand how your armor has anything to do with the Nords' inherent racism made them inclined to toss the Alik'r out of town. 2. votes. Justiciar Execution Order with your race and name. Her very life depends on convincing this random adventurer to protect her against a band of trained killers. Are the Imperials allied with the Thalmor? @omikron yes, but then why would her burial urn be in Whiterun? As the other two have said, there’s no way to know who is telling the truth from the quest. If a jet engine is bolted to the equator, does the Earth speed up? The rest of your points make a lot of sense though. Why is Steam telling me to buy a game I've already purchased? We learn that the Redguards refuse to accept the treaty (and are expelled from the empire) and continue to wage war with the Aldmeri Dominion. After completing the quest, Saadia seemed a bit, for lack of a better word, cold-hearted. For The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim on the Xbox 360, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "In my time of need quest, who is telling the truth? So no, I don't think it is improbable that a desperate noblewoman could survive the journey. According to her, when the Aldmeri Dominion spread to her province, she spoke out against the Dominion and was forced to leave the land. Elder Scrolls is a FANDOM Games Community. Kematu asks you to meet him in Rorikstead. They may be related to the quest though. If Saadia's story was true, the Thalmor would never trust the Alik'r to do this, after all they've got their Justiciars in Skyrim Saadia acts surprised that the Alik'r are in Whiterun, but she knows there's one locked up in Dragonsreach level 1 I doubt it. Side with the Alik'r and Saadia will be executed. Was he in the employ of the Dominion? The first time you talk to Saadia, she pulls a knife on you. Was wondering why they attacked me at all, since I hadn't done anything obvious against the Thalmor yet. 2) They stand down and parlay if you start attacking their outpost. Log in to view your list of favourite games. Yeah, I'm on Saadia's side, the other thing that made me want to believe her is that if she helped the Aldmeri Dominion she could be fine under their protection, they're pretty freaking strong that and the fact she was a noble and became a tavern wench to live in hiding rather than staying a noble gives some credibility to her defense. Just found this out and felt like pointing it out here. According to the book on The Great War the Alik'r Warriors inflected massive casualties on the Dominion armies. well if she did help the thalmor and you helped Kematu then it makes sense that the justicars wanted to stop you, but why does justiciars imply that Kematu was lying? Lets add up the facts; 1. What is the highest road in the world that is accessible by conventional vehicles? As Thane of Whiterun, it is the dragonborn's duty to eliminate the Alik'r for their continued activities against Whiterun hold. Games. @Nothingatall "To let the player in Skyrim know it has happened." Im not sure why ya'll think Saadia is the one in the wrong here. He never really tells you why he was captured, he just says he has shamed the Alik'r for being captured, they are supposed to be "the best of the best" he says. How did she make it, if she isn't secretly an agent of the Dominion? I'm pretty sure that this quest was intended to be ambiguous by Bethesda, but that doesn't mean it isn't entertaining to theorize about what was happening behind the scenes. Saadia specifically wants you go and kill Kematu. If she was executed as a traitor, her (noble?) Why does she want that? I thought this was pretty black and white at first, and sided with Kematu, but as someone previously stated, you find Saadia's burial urn in the hall of the dead in Whiterun. You won't find any hints pointing to which side is telling the truth - you need to trust your intuition. I don't think that she was taken back to Hammerfell, executed, and then returned to Skyrim for burial. I misread it, I thought you were saying it was an intended mechanic and not a bug. Just found this out and felt like pointing it out here. We learn that Lord Naarifin a general of the Aldmeri Dominion was gibbeted at the end of the retaking of the Imperial City. Pulling a knife is what anyone would do. Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion signed the White-Gold Concordat, ending the Great War. "She sold the city out to the Aldmeri Dominion. After a bit they disappear, and that's seemingly the end of it. Trying a bit an experiment this month - with a poll that posits a moral dilemma from Elder Scrolls. Saadia's burial urn seems (to me) to be clear evidence that she was murdered within Skyrim. chevron_left. What's the point of telling your Companion to sleep? Who can say. Keep in mind the Aldmeri agreed to sign a peace treaty that is of great advantage but doesn't grant unlimited powers. Absent any hard evidence, you're just taking someone's word for it. 1) Saadia is on her own, hiding and being hunted. If your side wins a war you don't go into hiding 4. In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. She has every reason to exaggerate and obfuscate, and I can't really blame her for it. Active 1 Bountied Hot Week Month. At a guess, I would say "money". site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. Can I make a leisure trip to California (vacation) in the current covid-19 situation as of 2021, will my quarantine be monitored? The Elder Scrolls IV: Knights of the Nine. Also, here are many assumptions at play, for example: - Having an urn means a person is definitely dead, - Having an urn in Whiterun means a person died in Whiterun, - Being dead means the last person you saw them with is the killer and he had murderous intents from the start. As was mentioned, her story is fishy as hell. You might argue that the Urn's placement is symbolic, or that she was killed by a random monster while being escorted away, but both possibilities require a great deal of supposition. (spoilers)". @James If your counter to my first argument is that the same logic has never applied in the in-game AI, then you can't suggest that killing a large portion of a group convinced them to parlay, as that never happens with in-game AI. She was supposed to be taken back alive for a trial. Amorous Adventures is a The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim mod created by Foxfingers, adding new dialogue interactions and sidequests involving many NPCs from the base game.. Schaken-Mods EXCLUSIVE! 2) Yeah after you wipe out all the bandits ofcourse they want to talk, I never said they were savage or stupid.. or even bandits, they just hide in their cave :). As far as I know, Skyrim doesn't go into detail about the Alik'r. Several cities in Hammerfell would have gladly protected her from the Thalmor. One thing that also bothered me was that to find out where Kematu is, you have to visit the Whiterun prison to talk to a captured Alik'r. And in Skyrim, crime only applies to the hold you are residing in, in this case, Whiterun, Saadia is a working class resident holding a job and contributing to society. It is not recorded where his body was buried, if it was buried at all. Saadia has supposedly sided with the Aldmeri Dominion yet she's the one on the run. – Arkku Nov 30 '15 at 9:49. If you prefer to side with the Redguards, skip to Inform the Alik'r of Saadia's location. 63. views. Curved. The primary thing that reinforced my belief was that he paralyzed her and took her back, rather than simply killing her on sight. The first time you talk to Saadia, she pulls a knife on you. How can I visit HTTPS websites in old web browsers? I doubt that Rorik (having fought against the Aldmeri Dominion) would let them stay in his town if he had any suspicions about them making deals with the Thalmor. How can a GM subtly guide characters into making campaign-specific character choices? @Flater re. 1. answer. Draevan, and what do you have to say about the hypothesis of the urn being symbolic, since they simply don't find her the next morning? Meaning she was killed, and suggesting that Saadia was telling the truth: Kematu and his men were in the employ of the Dominion all along. Given that Hammerfell is not friendly with the Thalmor, Saadia's story of being persecuted for speaking out against them seems unlikely. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Saadia seems hesitant to explain the full situation, while Kematu elaborates on it fully. Recently added 26 View all 1,181. 3. (Upload NOWHERE ELSE!) When Kematu came to Whiterun in search for her, he didn't use force or made a scene. I doubt that 21 year is enough to clear up all the bad blood between the altmer and the redguards especially with the redguards being involved in gibbeting one of their more famous generals. =) Well, maybe one could argue that her family does not want a convicted traitor's ashes there, but they still care about her and want to her remains placed in some known place, so why not Skyrim where she was living. The other path is to go to Rorikstead to tell the two Alik’r at the Frostfruit Inn that you found Saadia. One source claims he was carried off by winged daedra on the thirty-fourth day. That's what prompts me to believe that Saadia is in fact lying. Wishing I hadn't turned her over, but oh well, I don't know if I could have beaten that many Alik'r warriors anyway. Kematu just threatens you with his band of assassins and hopes you'll lead him to her because he knows that you know where she is at that point. Furthermore, they have already been instructed to cease their activities. Although they are allowed to hunt down worshippers of Talos, they do not hold any authority to enforce local laws or their own in Skyrim. However, let’s look at some facts. So is Saadia being completely honest? So, yeah. The Redguards, understandably, looked on this as a betrayal. From reading the lore, Hammerfell resisted the Thalmore and the Empire distanced themselves from Hammerfell. Can an Eldritch Knight use a Ruby of the War Mage? If Mercs from Hammerfell are rolling up into Skyrim, you know it's serious. It makes sense that Alik'r warriors are turned away everywhere because they are seen as a military unit of Hammerfell which is no longer part of the empire, having a non-empire military unit march through a city could be seen as potentially dangerous, provocative and bearing heavy implications politically. Were it not for her betrayal, Taneth could have held its ground in the war." @Andy_Vulhop 1) This logic doesnt hold up with any other AI in the game. I was attacked by a group of them, and hadn't done the Embassy, and had sided with Saadia. The reason offered by Saadia for her exile was that she was speaking against Aldemeri Dominion. IMO her crime isn't worth following her all over the world for in the first place and I doubt she'd do anything in the future to further increase people's urge to kill her... Add the fact that she is now in Skyrim where the Thalmor can easily keep an eye on her if they feel the need to. So to break it down, Kematu's Alik'r are mercenaries that made 2 groups feel threatened, they were most likely hired by the Thalmor to capture Saadia and bring her back, and Kematu lies to you out of desperation in the cave, after you've destroyed his forces. Just looking at what they were packing - they had curved swords. Textbook recommendation for multiple traveling salesman problem transformation to standard TSP. During the Companions questline the player gets to decide if they would like to become a werewolf. Kematu's opening line - "We can avoid any more bloodshed." Saadia or Kematu? 3) Racism mixed with a bunch of armed dudes searching your town for a single person. An additional point in favour of Kematu is that if you kill Saadia at the exchange, he laments the wasted effort, so clearly he wasn't just planning on murdering her once they're out of your sight. However, you must consider that the Alik'r have curved swords. Saadia claims that she's innocent, that Kematu and his men are mercenaries hired by the Dominion to kill her. 3) I walk around in a full suit of armor made from the scales of a dragon with daedric weapons.... Perspective? We learn that General Decianus was directly involved in the retaking of the Imperial City during the Battle of the Red Ring. Are they honorable agents of Hammerfell, or just trumped up assassins? Swords. NPC Replacer for Saadia, the Redguard woman located in the Bannered Mare. This is why I believe Saadia. Who's telling the truth? Surviving the journey from Hammerfell to Skyrim was probably not easy, especially for a pampered noble. Prior to her arrival in Skyrim, Saadia, or "Iman" to use her true name, as revealed during her quest, was a noble belonging to one of the most powerful houses in Hammerfell. @Andy_Vulhop The Aldmeri never imposed their judicial system to the defeated Holds. If you side with Saadia during her questline, you may obtain proof of her innocence, and she will become available as a potential Follower, Steward, Spouse, and Traveling Merchant. Do the Alik'r actually go after you if you take too long to lure Saadia to the stables? family might not want her buried in her ancestral home. When logged in, you can choose up to 12 games that will be displayed as favourites in this menu. Plus I tend to side with the smaller party in almost all cases. At least until he was away from the city, to avoid more trouble with the Whiterun guards. While this may seem like an act of desperate defiance, it may hint at a violent and unpredictable personality. Confusion about reps vs time under tension: aren't these two things contradictory? How would you like someone breaking in your house and punishing your children? The Aldmeri Dominion is currently in power in Hammerfell. It is more likely, I think, that Kematu murders her shortly after the Dragonborn helps him. How is it possible to confirm their claims? Complete with fake ashes in the urn (since if you search it you find "Saadia's Ashes" in the urn)? While this may seem like an act of desperate defiance, it may hint at a violent and unpredictable personality. The purpose of this quest I think is to make you question which is the right option to take. Also, she was surely not the innocent little kitten that she wanted to be taken for. If Kematu really was an assassin, why paralyse her at the end of the quest - why not just stab her and be done with it? I ignored them - my quest is to find the truth in Skyrim, not some runaway slave. that Kematu might have been telling the truth and that Saadia truly was a Even though the Aldmeri Dominion could have control over part of Hammerfell after the treaty, I doubt that they would be able to employ Alik'r who were part of the Hammerfell military during the war just a few decades ago. I think there are so many possible explanations for her death that it's impossible to draw safe conclusions from the sheer observation of a named urn in a crypt. So are they loyal agents of Hammerfell? Skyrim Main Quest; Eventual Romance; Summary. Bash - How to reorganize files based on the dates in their names? "The Great War" chronicle accurately depicts the events that unfolded during the war between the empire and the Aldmeri dominion. Punishment for treason is death, so it proves nothing. Best at what? The game doesn't tell us who is right here, so we're stuck with the dilemma people face in real life: we have to make the best choice with the information we have. Kematu keeps his word about taking Saadia alive. I would rather base my theory on what happens in-game, as part of the quest, and draw logical conclusions from that. I'm sure she's lying, too. Whiterun isn't a pro-Imperial city, at present its neutral. For the following reasons I choose to side with Kematu: 1. Saadia wouldn't be hiding in Skyrim if she was really fleeing from the Thalmor. I've done this quest both ways.. and I am now convinced the Alik'r are lying.. But here is my take on it for judging the character, So based on that, I usually go with Saadia if I am being a relatively 'good' person... or if I just want all the Alik'r gear to dress up manikins with :). Saadia's story had a lot of inconsistencies and I mean a lot. @Arkku Why, after an execution in Hammerfell, would they send her ashes back to Skyrim? That's pretty compelling evidence against them in my book. For these reasons I almost always end up siding with Kematu. The Dragonborn can search all they like, but no evidence in favor of either side ever presents itself. Meanwhile Saadia's burial urn, which appears in Whiterun afterwards, could have been sent back for whatever reason (e.g., they didn't want the traitor buried in her ancestral home). And as stated, the Thalmor don't have the right to just kidnap people in Skyrim, they would have to hire someone else to capture her. She might be a liar, but Kematu is definitely a liar. Go to Hammerfall and ask the House of Suda. Little does he know that his first step over the border is just the first step in the journey that will take him to his destiny and beyond. What is the current school of thought concerning accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements? In Whiterun, or anywhere else in Skyrim, this is the lore and the law. The Alik'r were shunned by Whiterun, that's saying something. Kematu might be telling the truth. Who must be present at the Presidential Inauguration? I believe Saadia. Is there a way to … If she was executed as a traitor, her (noble?) [...] One army, with the legions from Hammerfell under General Decianus, was hidden in the Colovian Highlands near Chorrol. The Alik'r are not allowed in the city, so for now she is perfectly safe. Curved. The Alik'r pretty much are going to kill you unless you give them Saadia. You guys are being to obsessed with this thing... She is a waitress now, nothing of interest anymore. So we all know this quest by now: you have to pick whether to side with Saadia or Kematu. Why do I get attacked by Thalmor Justicars in Skyrim when I have done nothing to offend them as far as I know? I believe Saadia over Kematu, myself. @Andy_Vulhop Using the official means to complete every and any task is stupid for every great empire, especially if it concerns breaking in another Hold to make justice as they understand it. chevron_right. Once Saadia is alone with the Dragonborn, she will explain her side of the situation. close. She was supposed to be taken alive back to Hammerfell. Saadia is a traitor and should suffer the worst fate. According to claims, Saadia was forced to flee the province to Skyrim after speaking out against the Aldmeri Dominion , … Anyone that bases their point solely on another person being a liar, well that's just very dodgy straight off the bat. Meaning she was killed, and suggesting that Saadia was telling the truth: Kematu and his men were in the employ of the Dominion all along. #5, note that Kematu clearly has the apparent advantage in numbers when he makes the proposal, and he's taking a risk that you double-cross him by pretending to accept the proposal and then help Saadia escape (or kill Kematu at the exchange, which you can actually do). They had a war with them and no Redguard would ever support the Thalmor lest work for them. After Hammerfall itself its the province where accusations of Thalmor sympathy are most likely to get you lynched. This was my original reason to hit F9, say "screw you" and sold her out instead. [...] Hammerfell, however, refused to accept the White-Gold Concordat, being unwilling to concede defeat and the loss of so much of their territory. I'm going with Saadia, she's not hanging out in a damn cave, even that is pretty friggin suspicious! If you side with Kematu, he claims he'll be taking Saadia to Hammerfell to stand trial, that she won't be harmed "until she gets there". However after reading this I realised, if she has an Urn, with her name on it, it means she was officially/publically killed. He didn't kill her but she wants you to kill them. The Aldmeri have always been able to win fights without the assistance of individuals, especially noble women, who may or may not have access to military secrets. Because he wanted to maintain the fiction that she was being taken back to Hammerfell for trial. via nexus mods. Saadia is known for constantly changing her name. To me, his entire conversation in the cave comes off as a meticulously designed story intended to undermine whatever confidence the Dragonborn has in Saadia, topped off by the (apparently empty) promise that she won't be harmed. Partly because she didn't hold any particular attachment to the place (she has no friends or family tagged, if you look her up in the Creation Kit), and its doubtful that the Redguards would show her the respect of a proper burial. Browse all chevron_right; Ragnthor of the Isles comes home to Skyrim after being gone for 8 years. Kematu's explanation that she betrayed a city to … The player cannot be… On the other hand, were they killed by 'regular' murderers this wouldn't enrage you politically. Mods. and wanting to see the girl he left behind. Saadia is a citizen of Skyrim and Whiterun, so as a thane of Whiterun hold, Saadia is under my protection. They were originally part of the Imperial Army but were discharged by their General when he was ordered to take his troops to Cyrodill to retake the Imperial City. Kematu and his mercenaries are definitely the ones telling the truth.